Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

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e21paddy
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Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

Hello all,

I recently replaced my tie rod ends, and wishbones on my 81 320/6. The car is lowered on Bilstein lowering springs - 30mm.

I was under pressure for time for a roadworthiness test, so I didn't press out the standard wishbone bushings to replace with my old polyurethane bushings (I'll be doing some other work and will reinstall them in the Winter). Upon lifting the car I noticed that one side had an extra 4mm washer/spacer on the arb abutment side. Strange, I thought. I continued with the work, used the new wishbones, and dropped the car. This meant that the ARB and Wishbone abutments were snug against each other. Took it for a test drive and found the passenger side tyre fouling the arch.

As a solution, I had to machine a small piece of stock to push the wheel back to within acceptable alignment. This piece of stock sits against the ARB shoulder, and bushing of the wishbone.

Has anyone experienced something like this, what could be the issue? Essentially the passenger wheel is not concentric with the driver side wheel, without a spacer on its side.


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Jeroen
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by Jeroen »

Since a correction was already fitted, it sounds like both your old as well as the new wishbones showed this issue, on one side. Sometimes this is the case if one fits a pre facelift wishbone, but in this case, if you ordered the correct facelift examples, then it could be a bent crossmember, sway bar or strut.
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

A correction was fitted on the old wishbones as well.

I’ll make sure to chase the issue, what’s the cure for a bent cross member? I might check the arb for squareness, although it looked pretty right when I had it off.
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

A more comprehensive follow-up:
When I received the car, no issue was noted regarding wheel position in the arch. BBS spoiler was fitted which decreases arch clearance in the problem area, so for sure it was not a problem.

First Maintenance interval:
- top mount bearings
- front springs and shocks (only new back units was installed when I bought the car),
- reconditioned rack, Powerflex polybushes installed.
- Work was carried out by local mechanic

Post maintenance: Car drove fine, no problems with arch strike (I think). I didn't have the car on the road for that long, so it could have been an issue that wasn't solved and I just didn't notice.

Second maintenance interval:
A road test worthiness carried out, found some worn track rod ends. I decided to change the wishbones also to the standard ones so I could get a retest quickly. Upon dissassembly I noticed the following as noted below. An extra washer on the passenger side had been cut (green), and slid behind one of the washers on the front side only. Odd I thought! Wishbones were changed out and standard bushings left in (I was going to change them for the powerflex at a later stage)
Image

Upon lowering the car, the arch striking issue began, passenger wheel was way too far forward, and was striking the arch. Bugger. By calculation, the thickness of the yellow and blue and green section above, equals about 12-13mm (if anyone could verify this, it would be great). So a piece of stock was cut and flattened. This came to about 11mm and was inserted as below.
Image
Comparison to driverside:
Image

Current Standing

I am now getting struck on both sides of arches (PS + DS). PS is worse than DS, driveable but not liveable. Steering is loose enough, far looser than polybushed wishbones (expected?).

Driver Side
Image

Questions
- Is this due to the fact I don't have any washers present on the front side of the wishbone? IF the wish bone gives slight flexibility, how does sandwiching it between two metal washers allow the movement to occur in driving?
- The wheels seem to find their own alignment after driving, reversing, turning etc. Is this due to the lack of washers on front end of wishbones also?

Apologies for the long post, but I figure this might give people a better idea of what's going on.
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by shadyracer01 »

Can you have someone rock the steering wheel while you inspect anti roll bar mountings for movement under the bush clamps?
I had similar issue, checked arms, bar and struts against spare units, no problem found but did find bar too far over to one side, swapped with spare bushes and problem solved.
When tightening arb nut do this with wheel on and off jack preferably.
Good luck
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

The more information I receive the more I figure out how wrong my current set-up is.

Is it essential to have the car on the ground, I hope this solves my castor issue, as I know myself that the car was on a lift both times when tightening the ARB. I hope this solves the issue, rather than trying to investige a bent member somewhere!
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21Keith »

Looking at your photos where the ARB goes into the bottom arm, this just doesn't look right to me, there should be a large washer here with a rubber surface facing the bottom arm. This would explain why your wheel sits too far forward. The diagram in the EPC shows 2 washers on the ARB, one should go in front of the bottom arm, one behind.
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

You’re correct.

This is why my driver side wheel is now too far forward. However, before I messed this up, my passenger side wheel was further forward.

Reverting to the washers will help, but not solve my passenger side issue unfortunately. But it’s possible the ARB is not aligned correctly due to being tightened on a ramp.
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by Jeroen »

Not aligned correctly could be the case ofcourse. And I believe there is a difference between pre and post facelift sway bars, perhaps it was replaced by the wrong type at some point?
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by uwbuurman »

When tightning the ARB, either both wheel should of on the ramp or floor, or should both be hanging free. If you start with securing the rubber mountings in front, on de ARB, and then the control arms, it must be straight.

If not, then the ARB is bent, some how. Easy to check. Lay it on the floor, make a chalk outline and flip it 180°. If bent, it should show.
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

e21Keith, I hear what you're saying. But surely the misalignment would be the same on both ends? Seems to be far further on passenger side. Also, from looking closely at the bushing, the large disc merely acts as a spacer as far as I can gather? i.e. the washer doesnt sit against the wishbone face, rather it sits at the abutment on the bushing. Why such a large washer for such a small abutment?

I dropped the car into my local classic mechanic shop (apartment living).

We had a good chat about the situation. There is no obvious misalignment with the sub frame or chassis. I would need a straight laser to confirm, but I'm almost certain there isn't.

Current plan
- Remove swaybar and check for any misalignment.
- Remove current bushings, install powerflex +1 extra washer on the passenger side.

A Question about power flex bushings, mine have a thin side and a fat side. As below, fat side should be to the front, is this correct?Image
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by Atle_323i »

e21paddy, I just went out to check on my car, and it looks like I've mounted the fat side on front driverside (EU model) and the thin in front on passenger side. So I have to take down my swaybar and do it again. But I'll fix that later this winter, when I'm going to do alot of sheet metal work on my car and replace both engine frame rails.

It might affect the alignment of the wheels if mounted wrong?
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by Atle_323i »

Oh, I went to powerflex web page and found the instruction for fitting the bushings.

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product_im ... FI.cdr.pdf

It says bush A front and bush B back, so the thin one is for front facing and the fat one for back facing.
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e21paddy
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21paddy »

I think I might have to go fat end forward to give me the clearance.

In my head, I keep saying “It HAS to be the sway bar”. But visually, without measurement, it seems fine!
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Re: Peculiar Wheel Misalignment - Strangeness

Post by e21Keith »

The problem is caused by the bottom arms being pulled forward so ruling out any frame or crossmember damage it brings you back to the way the arms are mounted to the ARB, so it's wrong arms, wrong ARB or the way the arms are mounted to the ARB.
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