Brexit or Not- what are your views?

[TopCat]

This is a very european Forum- so I would be interested in the spectrum of views provided:


let the fun begin- and no cheap politicking please!

[uwbuurman]

I dont care, I think the problems for the UK are bigger with a brexit than for the EU.

[nas80]

I want to leave

As I heard the EU want to change our classic car laws lol.

[Curly]

Want to come out , we don't need it we have our own scroungers , sex pests and criminals

[Jeroen]

hahahaha well to what extent is Britain now IN the EU then?

The EU was started with a lot of good intentions but in the end not enough has come from this move. We can't blame it for the economic crisis, but yes the EU let some countries in that were not complying, deliberately or not. Put on some pink glasses as we say in Dutch, and hope all will remain well. Some countries pulled down some strong currencies which affects all of us, and the countries that were able to keep adding value and kept the engines running end up paying big time for countries where things were less well organized imo.

So it all started off with good plans, of which not much has really come into life apart from shared regulations for the power consumption of household vacuum cleaners, really! If we really start working as one Europe and take one approach to the issues that count, then we'll be getting somewhere, and then we'll be able to cope with issues together and create a powerful counterweight against super powers like the US, Russia and emerging powers like China. But if we all stick to values that used to work for us decades ago behind our safe old borders and we are not willing to co operate, what is left?

It is already high time (for all of us) to take a critical look at things and let go of chauvinist pride imo, and start working on progress that can be achieved by co operating. Not being too stubborn (same in Holland as well!) to admit that Germany, even though they have enough issues of their own, have made tremendous leaps forward and has coped with so many issues. If we all were more like them we'd be all having more money in our wallets! Example? Remember what they got in 1989? 17 million new, less developed, outdated and pretty much jobless people thrown in their lap. Recent public sector reforms every country desperately needs, but Germany is the only one achieving anything, other countries only polish up their figures. Still we don't want to even admit that they've done something right over there.

Something can be gained, but only if we want to. If we remain stubborn, there are only losers in the end. So my answer (finally haha)... stay in if you are willing to co operate. Otherwise its pretty useless.

[steed]

just to lend an answer to your first query Jeroen, a great glob of Britain's administrative powers (municipal government decision making on mostly low level stuff) was handed over to the EU by assorted UK governments in the nineties (Major to an extent but mostly Blair) WITHOUT input from the general populace. So you are correct in that Britain was never originally in but over the decades our previous PM's have slowly given over a lot of our decision making a policy writing powers to the EU.
The reasoning behind some individuals is unclear but Blair did it under the long term plan that once he finished as prime minister of the UK, hand a great chunk over to the EU as a 'Buy-in' for him with the upper Echelons with the EU council which he would then aim to lead.

You are correct that the Ideals of the EU are something we should all strive to regain but alas the common man is now so far removed from any involvement with Brussels that politicians (both European and British) have ostracized the UK populace sufficiently for the majority to feel as though they gain nothing from the EU, save for Visa-less holiday travel. You also should bear in mind that whilst our economies have a relationship, they aren't tied by the euro.

My opinion is that we should leave, but more as a show of force to our own government who have successively u-turned on their own stance in the past two years more times than I can count. Its no so much about the In-Out of Europe, its more about getting our own house in order. Only then we can decide what we can offer to the EU and what they can offer us in turn.

My two pence...

[TopCat]

This is very well put:

eU really ought to watch this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMwvWHLRrpE

[Jeroen]

Steed... well I do have a different view indeed. Neither Britain nor any other country has surrendered major administrative powers. There's nothing there. What happens is that the EU is being used as an excuse. 'Brussels' doesn't impose too much, we use it as an excuse to implement unpopular measures. In the end, that makes it even worse, but we have our own governments to blame! So, what will a Brexit bring you? I don't think much will change.

[steed]

Steed... well I do have a different view indeed. Neither Britain nor any other country has surrendered major administrative powers. There's nothing there. What happens is that the EU is being used as an excuse. 'Brussels' doesn't impose too much, we use it as an excuse to implement unpopular measures. In the end, that makes it even worse, but we have our own governments to blame! So, what will a Brexit bring you? I don't think much will change.

You are correct in that our government hasn't surrendered any major powers but that isn't what I was saying, I think my reference to one of our previous Prime Ministers (John Major) may have caused confusion there.
We haven't given over powers as such but, to call on but a few examples, in industry, construction and finance we have had significant changes as a result of yielded our decision making powers to the EU.
Take construction; where once upon a time we would apply British Standards, many have now been usurped by Eurocodes. Whilst some of these are very similar a few new inclusions have made things very difficult, expensive and in some cases not financially viable. A lot of these don't affect the majority of EU populace as government funded or state backed mass construction incentives are still common place. Also a large portion of Europe don't buy homes. they don't perceive homeownership in the same way we do here, it's just a difference in culture in that regard.
In industry a prime example of where we have handed over a bit too much of our policy making is when it comes to testing. Certain electronic and mechanical equipment is stipulated to be tested (by EU Legislation) by TUV. Whilst there is a presence of TUV in the UK it is not a national resource, rather a private company, which can effectively monopolise the testing of certain products as a result of the UK relinquishing power to the EU.
And in finance the regulations pertaining to the average mortgage have gone berserk (as a result of the new requirements stipulated by the EU) and are now verging on the same level of intrusive fact finding as would be expected when undergoing a national security clearance check for a government organisation. This is partly as a backlash of the financial crisis but also to the cultural difference I mentioned earlier in so much that as the concept of renting a home is more common place in most of the EU. The administrative burden (on both individuals and banks) required for a mortgage may seem to go hand in hand with the occasional application you may see on the continent but here in the UK it is the principal means of home ownership. So now banks do the checks their functions require and then perform the additional work as legislated by the EU, this has had a significant knock-on effect to the UK housing market, this has subsequently effected the rate of our economic growth.

You are correct that our government is quick to blame Brussels, and you are correct in that there is no one major thing that can be pointed to as a detriment to the UK. however the culmination of decades of little things has taken it's toll and, if left unchecked as they have been, will only have more of a negative impact.
As is often the case in life, don't worry about the big things, pay attention to the fine details. Alas it is very difficult to convey this sort of information to the general public, it doesn't disseminate well. This is why politicians just resort to finger pointing.

[Jeroen]

Well, I more and more get the idea an unrealistic picture is drawn of several practices in Europe, perhaps coming from a political side. The UK doesn't have a situation that greatly varies from average European statistics when it comes to home ownership or mortgages and I'm not aware of state backed mass construction incentives, at least not in western Europe. What I do know, is that a large part of the financial crisis is caused by banks being way too lenient when evaluating any loan request. As they are suffering huge consequences now they are being way more strict. That means it is a lot harder to get a loan compared to the situation where we were in economic heaven. The European mortgage regulations (to be updated again in June) to my knowledge rather address the provision process than setting standards for evaluation. Even though things have become more strict, for example it is still a lot easier to get a mortgage in Holland than in Germany. All these actions combined do not only protect our financial system better, but they also prevent people from getting into trouble. Many were in way over their heads which meant that if things only shift a tad they are in trouble, something we saw coming for at least a decade already.

As for electronics, well TUV is one of the suppliers when it comes to testing, but not mandatory nor a monopolist, at least not in my line of business.

I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I do have extensive experience in construction, real estate and I'm currently managing production, QC/QA and repair for a multinational manufacturer of professional AV electronics, so I do have some background here.

[TopCat]

When asked same question on another car forum I got this reply:

"Having to deal with this shit at work at the moment http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 243.01.ENG
talk about a scam of red tape"



This directive is unbelievable and just one of hundreds being issued every year over which the EU Court holds sway.

[Jeroen]

Agree that documents like these are horrible, while on the other end of the scale failing big time on issues that really count on a global well EU scale.

[uwbuurman]

Holy crap, everything is falling apart over at you side of that North Sea. How do you like them apples?

[TopCat]

Nexit???

[nas80]

Cats and dogs living together, Mass hysteria!

I'm sure itll calm down by next week.