316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post Reply
User avatar
uwbuurman
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 18616
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:49 pm
My E21(s): 1978 type 1 323i 5speed dogleg Polaris
Location: Ljouwert

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by uwbuurman »

Very nice!!


It's the man next door!

1978 BMW 323i
1980 BMW 528i maior restitutio
1987 BMW 325iA cabriolet
2006 BMW 320d touring High Executive
2015 BMW 320dA touring xDrive High Executive ///Msport
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Funny question maybe, especially during the probably hottest day of summer 21 in Athens, I guess most people will laugh, but we all need a good laugh don't we?
However, question is serious, and probably people with 70 degrees thermostats will understand.
The story goes like this:
So, recently (last summer) I had my heater radiator fully cleaned and de clogged: It has been some years now that heating during winter was really poor. And Yes, also in Athens you get (a few) of these cold winter days when a good car heating is everything. And I re-experienced some good heating in my E21 (almost had forgotten how nice it is). However, during a small journey in one of the mountains around Athens, in a really cold afternoon, I turned the air speed faster to have some more heating. And then the air started cooling down, until it was coming cold! Now, as the heater was recently cleaned up, I believe this is due to the lower temp thermostat. As summer is in general hot and, predominant I would say, round here, I do not want to replace it for the normal thermostat of 80 degrees.
And now the question:
Asked my electrician whether there is any trick to increase heating without replacing thermostat. And what he proposed was this (the guy is NOT joking) : A cover (for half of) the engine's radiator in order to let the water heat up a bit more (only for winter).
What is your opinion ?
I was really intrigued with the idea.
The other idea would be, as I have, apart from the factory engine fan, an electric one with the automatic temp turn on and off sensor, which takes up when temp rises to 85 (not sure) degrees, to replace by the factory thermostat, and hope for summer that the electric fan will cover me (working a bit more than currently)
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
BertjeConti
E21 Mad
Posts: 3004
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:49 pm
My E21(s): E12 520-6
Location: nederland , Weert

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by BertjeConti »

My experience is that the old bmw's have a very good heater core, in my case it heats in winter that good, just a tad opening the heater knob, and real warm air enters the cabin.

Blocking the radiator with cardboard in cold days was common in the seventies by other car brands but bmw i've never seen it.

Is it possible there is something mixed up with the hoses to the heater core?
Image
Megasquirted '77 E12 520-6

Aspen Silver '96 E39 523i
e21Keith
E21 Fanatic
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:44 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Manual

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by e21Keith »

I assume the cold air comes from all the outlets of the heater, including the windscreen vents and footwell vents?

If the engine is getting anywhere near normal operating temperature I would not suspect that the engine cooling system is the reason for the heater not working.

I think the first thing I would do is feel the pipes that feed the hot water to the heater, If they are cold it probably means that water is not circulating through the heater matrix. There could be 2 reasons for this, first the valve which regulated the water to the heater could be blocked or damaged, second the heater core itself could be blocked again by fresh sediment from the cooling system.
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

I will try to have those checked, thank you.
However, with the 70 deg thermostat, the engine temperature needle is not normally standing at (just a line thick before) the middle of the gauge, but around the 1/4 towards cold part (blue)
iirc when I used to have the factory thermostat the needle stood around the middle
Doesn't this mean that the car is running cooler-so this could be the reason for the heater not heating properly when asked to give more?
As I said, this happens only when I turn the ventilator to number 2 and even worse, number 3. When ventilator is at number 1, air is coming nice and warm.
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29169
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

Between 1/4 and the middle are only approx 10 degrees centigrade so it is not funny your temperature moves towards the 1/4 mark with the 72 degree thermostat. The thermostat should further regulate temperture and flow, you should not have to interfere with that.

I think your problem is with the interior heating section. Either heater valve not opening properly, a bent hose, or the heater matrix clogged up internally. In all cases this is only allowing a very small stream of coolant through the heater matrix and if you then increase the air flow the heather matrix doesn't stay warm anymore.
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Thank you guys
I guess this should be inspected by a specialist then? It does not seem a DIY job to me...
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
e21Keith
E21 Fanatic
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:44 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Manual

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by e21Keith »

To check whether the hoses are hot, just lift the bonnet and check the temperature of the 2 hoses that connect to the heater (the only ones that go through the bulkhead.

To plush the heater core just connect a garden hose to the afore mentioned pipes, flushing one way, then the other. In my experience this is usually enough to flush any soft sediments from the heater matrix.

If this doesn't work and you've checked the heater valve is working properly (fitted to one of the pipes that go through the bulkhead, them maybe you need some help.

Just checking that when you say there is no heat you're not referring to just the face level vents as these only blow cold anyway (well at least on my e21 they only blow cold but hot comes from everywhere else)?
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29169
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

Keith, I could be off completely but I believe we are speaking of the interior heating and the interior heater core. You are right that not all vents blow both hot and cold, but he describes the interior heating capacity decreases with an increase of the fan speed. Appears to me he is aware of that already and noticing behavior that is varying.
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Indeed I know well the weird E21 heating system with only fresh (outside) air coming from middle vents (and vice versa if I am not mistaken : fresh air coming only form middle vents). And yes, as Jeroen stated, the problem is only when I ask a bit more heating (turning the fan to no 2 or 3). Otherwise heating is working ok. So I 'd better check the system for a valve not opening properly or bent hoses (as I take it that the heater was de clogged properly last year-of course you never know)
Are all these repairable easily, or, for example the heater valve is something that has to be replaced?
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
e21Keith
E21 Fanatic
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:44 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Manual

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by e21Keith »

Sounds like not enough water getting through the core then, in which case id suggest the valve or a blockage.

The valve itself is easy enough to replace, don't know whether new ones are still available though?
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Do I have to know whether my system is the BEHR or SOFICA one?
Because this is something I haven't understood up to now
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
Jeroen
Site Admin
Posts: 29169
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:23 pm
My E21(s): '81 323i Baur
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by Jeroen »

nope doesn't matter and the whole setup is pretty simple and straight forward. and even after cleaning (as far as you can achieve this internally) the rad can be clogged up. Get yourself a repair manual ;)
Regards/groeten, Jeroen
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

Jeroen wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:19 pm Get yourself a repair manual ;)
John Haynes ? ;)
I think I have this somewhere
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
User avatar
petroscf
E21 VIP
E21 VIP
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm
My E21(s): '77 EU 316 (2.0 - manual/dogleg - lsd)
Location: ATHENS-GREECE
Contact:

Re: 316 - 1977 - petroscf - Greece

Post by petroscf »

When turning on the fan, sometimes dust, particles and even small pieces or dry leaves may get in the car, from vents.
Am I missing something here? Perhaps some filter is missing or damaged? Was there any product such as "cabin filter" available that's missing now perhaps?
/oo=00=oo\
E21 Forever
Post Reply